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A request Jul. 28th, 2006 10:58 pm
Geek thoughts on Tor, please?


From: webcowgirl
Date: July 28th, 2006 - 10:34 pm (Link)
They publish great science fiction - at least, that was my first thought.
From: azekeil
Date: July 28th, 2006 - 10:56 pm (Link)
P2P anonymous proxy. Note, I do not mean that it can be used for P2P - in fact, they strongly discourage using it for that, as the bandwidth is provided voluntarily by other Tor users.

I think it has its uses for those who believe in privacy. There is another major project which goes along the other major line of thinking in this area: I2P.

What do you want to know?
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
From: azekeil
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 07:41 am (Link)
I have to admit the theory of lack of accountability leading to greater abuse is a theory I subscribe to as well, but I do believe it is down to the abused to tighten up their policies and require people to identify themselves. Pseudo-anonymity would do for this, as long as it was difficult enough to acquire additional identities - perhaps through a referral system where only those who had already been active both in terms of time and activity were able to refer a limited number of people - much like LiveJournal's original system.
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
From: ciphergoth
Date: July 31st, 2006 - 10:56 pm (Link)
Yes - you want to be in a position to say "I have reason to trust this person even though I know nothing else about them". You want the outputs of the trust metric even though the inputs are hidden.

You could put together TrustFlow and the architecture behind RPOW to achieve something like that.

"Hello Carol, hello Dave, I'm trying to get Tom to anonymously trust me. You've given me certificates that you trust me - could you give me certificates that Tom indirectly trusts you?"

"Hello Trent, here's Carol and Dave's certificates that they trust me and that Tom indirectly trusts them - could you give me a certificate that Tom indirectly trusts this key?"

(in disguise) "Hello Tom, you don't know me but here's a certificate signed by Trent to say you trust me..."

That still has abuse potential as it stands, but it's a direction with potential.
From: reddragdiva
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 04:35 pm (Link)
Wikipedia excludes Tor assiduously because overwhelmingly it's used for vandalism and sockpuppetry. Even Freenode has kicked Tor off. The Tor founder greeted Jimmy Wales with "Oh, you're Jimmy Wales. Why do you hate freedom?" which says everything you need to know about how well Tor plays with others. Yeah, we hate freedom, now fuck off.
From: wechsler
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 05:03 pm (Link)
That pretty much tells me all I need to know about it, thanks.
From: reddragdiva
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 05:28 pm (Link)
Its use on the Chinese Wikipedia is encouraged as it nicely gets past the Great Firewall of China. We now have a facility to block an IP from anonymous users but allow logged-in users to edit, but I'm not sure if Tor proxies are allowed at present. I've been actively avoiding English Wikipedia admin work and concentrating on either article writing or Foundation stuff.
From: dennyd
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 07:20 pm (Link)
Freenode hasn't kicked Tor off. We've recently changed the way endpoints are cloaked because we're planning to allow other anonymising agents access as well, but Tor is still very much encouraged as an anonymising agent for access to the Freenode IRC network, and is the only one currently approved afaik.
From: dennyd
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 07:22 pm (Link)
Forgot to say, Tor users feature in abuse complaints (at IRCop level) on Freenode a LOT less than I was expecting... maybe once every week or two.
From: reddragdiva
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 08:25 pm (Link)
O rly? I understood otherwise as it was being seriously abused by GNAA to fuck shit up. Cool.
From: dennyd
Date: July 30th, 2006 - 10:21 am (Link)
Yeah, GNAA have managed to get Tor a few network-wide temporary bans, but they seem to have fairly short attention spans, so the bans don't generally have to be that long.
From: rhialto
Date: August 1st, 2006 - 05:38 pm (Link)
That's not entirely true: you can reach freenode through a hidden service. Although I'm not quite sure what they want to accomplish through that (maybe just make it a bit more difficult for non-determined abusers?)
(no subject) - (Anonymous)
From: ciphergoth
Date: July 29th, 2006 - 04:14 pm (Link)
Ditto for Wikipedia.
From: rhialto
Date: August 1st, 2006 - 05:41 pm (Link)
Dutch ISP Xs4all has two minds about tor: on the one hand they like it, since it is privacy-enhancing and that is their general policy, on the other hand, their irc server operators ban tor exitnodes (if they allow connections to a certain list of ports).